express in words how happy he was. what's your wish, sergeant, for other military families right now who are away from their loved ones? >> the only thing i can even say is natural balance pet foods and army public affairs office have done such a great job here. i just really hope that all the military members that are deployed still around the world, wherever they are, you know, that they get to experience what we just went through at some point in the future as quickly as possible. because it truly was a life-altering experience. >> you've got a lively and very excited son there, who's having a good time with all of us. let me thank all of you for joining us. thank you once again, sergeant, for your service. i wish all of you only a very, very excellent and happy and healthy new year. thanks. >> thanks, wolf. >> thank you. >> thanks. >> that's it for all of us here tonight. here tonight. "ac 360" starts right now.

-- captions by vitac -- www.vitac.com we begin the way anderson always does, "keeping them honest," holding people accountable for breaking their promises to you. tonight lawmakers who told tens of millions of people facing tens of billions in damage from superstorm sandy we stand with you and we've got your back. two months later massive bills are coming due and congress has failed to act. and though some big-name legislators are now scrambling to make up for it, a lot of badly hurting people are absolutely furious with what happened today in washington. people who live or once lived in places like this, seaside heights, new jersey, where entire beachfront community were simply washed away, or people who had to bike or walk to work or were stranded at home after the nation's biggest subway system flooded and parts of it just fell right into the bay. people out on long island, where whole chunks of the power grid were blown away. a lot of homes there, by the way, as well blown away. hospital patients who were stranded at three major new york

city hospitals when they were shut down. one of those hospitals is still almost completely out of commission. a lot of people hurting. and a very big, big price tag making things worse. storm damage could hit $80 billion nationwide, and parts of the bill are coming due any day now. fema's flood insurance program? it's almost out of money. and faced with that reality, the people on one side of this building took action last week working across party lines, republicans and democrats, approving a $60 billion relief and recovery package. that was the senate. so all the house had to do was go ahead and vote, just go ahead. hold the vote and go home. they did not. they just went home. the republican-controlled house just went home. and people, even big-name republicans went ballistic. >> there's only one group to blame for the continued suffering of these innocent victims. the house majority and their speaker, john boehner.

new york deserves better than the selfishness we saw on display last night. new jersey deserves better than the duplicity we saw displayed last night. america deserves better than just another exam personal foul a government that has forgotten who they are there to serve and why. >> new york's governor andrew cuomo and members of new york's largely democratic delegation also slammed the house's failure to act, and so did one of new york's leading republican house members. >> he kept telling me wait until the vote is over, wait until the fiscal cliff vote is over and then everything will be taken care of. and then he was gone. and he wouldn't -- he refused to meet with us. he actually yelled at congressman lobiando, said i'm not meeting with you people. he wouldn't tell us why. he just decided to sneak off in the dark of night. >> by day's end, though, he was singing a different tune because the house speaker john boehner was promising a friday vote on at least part of the relief package and a speedy action on the rest of the relief package. still, a lot of people are really disgusted about how we

got to this in the first place. our chief congressional correspondent dana bash has the very latest on that. so dana, point a to point b, it seemed like this was warp speed, from no action to some action to hopefully a lot more action. can you sort of walk me through the machinations? >> reporter: well, you played some of the comments from members of congress who are absolutely furious. and the key here is it was the speaker's fellow republicans. they went ballistic is the perfect world. you can almost still feel the walls here shaking, ashleigh, from how angry they were on the house floor the minute they realized last night the speaker was not going to allow this to come up for a vote in this lame duck congress. so what happened was it just became -- it took on a life of its own. and by this afternoon the house speaker and the majority leader had a meeting right down here behind me in his office with members of the new jersey and new york delegation, the republicans, and in about 20 minutes it was done. he had it all laid out. he promised them that he would have a vote this friday on a

small portion of it, $9 billion, and then by the first legislative day of the new congress, january 15th they will vote on the rest. and the same members, just like peter king is a perfect example, who were really angry, surprisingly personal, came right out and said you know what? that was a lifetime ago. we'll forgive and forget. we're fine with this. not thrilled that it didn't happen now but fine with waiting two weeks. >> so you know, i don't know if i just got so wound up in the fiscal cliff conversation that i forgot about the timing of this particular bill. but i was really surprised. all of a sudden after the vote was over on the fiscal cliff to see that this was a problem. and it made me think why has it taken this long to get that to a vote? i mean, that's months. >> reporter: i think that you just nailed it. i think that the big issue has been that the focus has been on the fiscal cliff. another issue is that the house and senate members who were putting this together wanted to put it together in an appropriate way, make sure they had everything that they needed,

that they checked all the boxes with the governors of the states and the representatives here. but you may want to know why did they actually -- why did the speaker decide to do what he did when his number two, eric cantor, had promised -- he'd been shepherding this. had promised there would be a vote. and the reason had to do with the fiscal cliff, ashleigh. all day long yesterday the speaker was getting an earful from his members that there weren't spending cuts in this fiscal cliff deal. so i'm told by reliable republican sources that he simply felt the last thing he could do politically for internal politics was to put a vote on the floor right afterwards with $60 billion in new spending that's not paid for. so that's the reason why you heard chris christie in new jersey really getting personal and really talking about palace intrigue and intraparty politics because that's really what went on. it was just the feeling that it was just too much tumult in a an already toxic environment when it comes to spending. >> but i'm not sure if i understand whether it was just

sort of displeasing tumult or whether it was tumult that would actually jeopardize getting an actual bill. because i didn't see that point being made. and if that's what the speaker meant, if that was the merit of his argument for not holding that vote, why didn't he say that? >> reporter: you know, his aides have been saying that, or said it this morning. but it certainly wasn't telegraphed in a big way. you're exactly right. i think probably the truth is, if they would have put it up for a vote it probably would have passed. it likely would have passed. that's fair to say. maybe along the same party lines split -- or bipartisan vote that we saw with the fiscal cliff. most democrats would and will vote for this. yes, there would have been some republican defections, but very likely it would have passed. but the question is whether the speaker could have had another vote where there were that many republican defections. it just would not have been politically good for him to do that. >> dana bash putting in a 100-hour workweek, and it's only wednesday. thank you, my friend. nice to see you. you look great, by the way. i don't know how you do it. this is a really turbulent day nonetheless.

people are struggling through this. a lot of lawmakers in washington patting themselves on the back tonight, pretty happy with the resolution, so to speak, but not everybody feels the same way. the satisfaction is not unanimous. a lot of people think things have gone wrong. in fact, they think that the federal response since the storm hit has been nothing short of, and here it goes, a disgrace. in a moment you're going to hear from a hard-hit resident of staten island, the guy who needs the money, the guy who's waiting for the money and has to see this all breaking on the news. but first i want to bring in new york senator james sanders jr. by the way, day one on the job. >> absolutely. >> congratulations. nice of you to come in. you saw how things played out. this is your area that was hit the hardest. are you satisfied with this speedy resolution today and what we're going to see this week and then in a couple of weeks? >> satisfied? i'm charging them with being awol, absent without leadership in this case. there's a compact that the american people make, and that's if you do right, play by the rules, pay your taxes, defend

the nation, uncle sam is going to be there when you're in need. they won't leave you out there in the cold. that's not true. 3,000 of my residents are out there in the cold. they haven't had power or light -- >> you still have 3,000 people who don't have electricity? >> 3,000 people who do not have light or power in my district. and the people in washington just don't get it. we don't have that time. these residents did not have a merry christmas. they're not having a happy new year. they're not doing eggnog and things of that nature. they're trying to stay warm. it's 20 degrees out there. we need to put some heat on d.c. >> so with the resolution that was sort of achieved today they said they're going to have a vote by friday and then in a couple more weeks they'll vote on the rest of the $60 billion package. and many lawmakers say it will work, that ultimately this will get passed. essentially intact.

does that buoy you at all? >> ultimately those things are good. but right now we're dealing with a life and death situation on the ground. the situation is not resolved. and whatever politics that the majority leader needs to do, let him do it. these are americans. when the northeast can help out every other part of the nation, we should be helped out also. >> i mean that is something that chris christie said. i don't know if you heard him. he said my goodness, new york and new jersey give more and take less from the federal government when it comes to emergencies. and this is the federal government turning its back on us in our time of need. do you read into this washington looking at the northeast, new york/new jersey as a snub or is that going too far? >> i read it that way. i see it that when it comes to us there's always a problem. let the record show that new york state and new york city give more to the federal government than we get back. not simply in emergencies, in everything. now, with that being said, our moment is now.

60 billion is not enough. however, $60 billion, we'll take it. let's go help people become whole. and every day that we don't have these funds puts my residents in a life and death situation. >> and what about -- at the beginning of this disaster there were all sorts of adjustments to insurance claims. we're going to waive certain policies that won't allow you to get your money in a quick fashion. but you've been on record saying that the insurance companies have -- are as complicit in this as lawmakers have been. >> they should be investigated. what is happening on the ground out here is nothing less than a disgrace. we're finding out every loophole that the insurance companies can use, they are using it against these people. then fema is hitting everyone and finding ways out also. they are claiming that they're not going to deal with any basement issues or any of these

other things. everyone is passing the buck. my residents, my bosses are being hurt, and we're just not being made whole. >> i know you've been critical about some politicians who have swooped in for photo ops and for viewers who are watching who are thinking you may be one of them, you are a victim as well. what happened to your home? >> i had five feet of water in my house. i lost approximately $30,000. my insurance said they're not covering it because it was a flood. fema said they're not covering it because it was in the basement. >> and flood insurers are also suggesting that that's just a structural thing. they're not going to give you insurance for your washing machine. >> flood insurance won't help you because they only cover the structure, not your content. so we're becoming experts at the runaround, the bureaucratic runaround, only made worse by what's going on in d.c. >> well, look. congratulations on your first day. i'm sorry it had to come to this. it's quite an active first day

for you. but i certainly hope that you and your constituents get some resolution to this and some aid very quickly. >> thank you. >> thank you very much, senator sanders. >> keep them honest. >> we will keep them honest, and we'll keep new mind as well. a short time ago i had a hans to speak with a staten island resident named frank gisi. he was one of those people who decided to ride out the storm and he nearly paid for that decision with his life. that storm destroyed both of his cars. and it left his house almost completely inhabitable. he is trying his best, however, just to live, and to live there. to him all of this business in washington is just nothing short of unbelievable. just another example of government playing politics with people's lives. >> so mr. gisi, it's been a tough day, and a lot happened on capitol hill today. the day started off rough, but in the end a decision's been made for a vote on friday and another vote in a couple of weeks. is that satisfying to you? >> no, it's really not.

it's a disgrace what they did. it should have never gone two months. >> how is it where you are? tell me a little bit about your home and getting back into your home. >> i was two months living down in the basement. i paid rent. it cost me a few thousand dollars. i had to get an apartment for my daughter because she's petrified to come back to this area. i'm almost back in the house. it cost me a lot of money out of my pocket. >> what about your neighbors? are they back? >> very few people on the block. maybe one or two. i'm probably the first one back out of 80 houses. >> wow. >> because the people didn't get paid. they didn't get their flood insurance money yet. and they don't have their own money to fix the house like i fixed my house. >> do you think that when congress is able to get some kind of relief measures your way, do you think your

neighborhood can return to the way it used to be? >> i only could say i hope so. this happened in 1992. and the government and the city never put in sewers here. and, you know, the storm things for the water not to come in. they let it pass. they let 10, 11 years pass again and it happened worse this time. and, you know, i feel that they're not going to do nothing. >> if you had a message that you could deliver personally to lawmakers and then also to people across the country about you and your neighbors and what you've been through and what you're looking forward to, what would that be? >> oh, for crying out loud, please help us. you know, you helped katrina in 10 days. you know, it should be all even, all over the country. >> let me ask you this. what do you think the future

holds for you and the rest of your staten island neighbors? >> i'm very -- i don't know. i don't know the word to tell you, but i don't know what's going to happen. i think they are going to pacify us again or give us a few more dollars but they're never going to fix the waterway here. last saturday we had a little storm with rain. where i live on the corner, the water was about two, three feet high. we couldn't go in and out with the cars until it receded. so they've been promising to put sewers here and fix this area up for years and they don't do nothing. >> our thoughts are with you and with your neighbors. thanks so much for being with us. >> so up next, about last night, that fiscal cliff bill that congress finally passed? there is something about it that you might not know. billions of dollars in giveaways. giveaways. money going to big businesses and questionable causes that have nothing to do with solving the fiscal cliff. so how did it get in there?

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so late last night congress took the tough step, that's tough for congress, that is, of voting on a tax bill that hauls

the country back up the fiscal cliff. >> this is a 15-minute vote. >> and as i'm sure that you've heard by now, they waited literally until the 11th hour of the last day before the 112th congress adjourns for good. they labored and they talked and then they balked and then they talked again and then they labored some more on a bill that makes permanent the bush tax cuts for about 98% of all americans and then raises tax rates on the rest. that gavel dropped zberngs everyo again, and everyone from the president on down scrambled for about a nanosecond to make nice. >> i want to thank all the leaders of the house and senate. in particular, i want to thank the work that was done by my extraordinary vice president joe biden. as well as leader harry reid, speaker boehner, nancy pelosi, and mitch mcconnell. >> so what would emerge later were some of the back room details about what happened in

the tense days leading up to the vote. there were ultimatums and pois pills and reports of house speaker john boehner f-bombing the senate majority leader harry reid, no joke, and the political blogs are all over this. but keeping them honest, there is another back room angle that doesn't seem to be getting quite as much coverage. this bill that most people think is about the fiscal cliff is also about calling a shopping cart full of pork not that. it's like a kennel full of pet projects and special interest spending. pork, pork, pork, pork, pork. lawmakers who barely had the time to pass the bill and who didn't have the time to pass a storm relief bill somehow found the time to extend a series of tax breaks. and now bear in mind that the tax incentives are how government shapes policy. there are tax breaks for homeowners, parents with small children, charity donors, small businesses, you name it. but according to taxpayers for common sense, some of the items in this bill really don't make much common sense.

are you ready? $46 million in 2013 for motor speedways, clearly a benefit for nascar. 199 million in tax breaks for rum making. that largely benefiting a big liquor conglomerate. $38 million in tax incentives benefiting starkist and other companies doing business in american samoa. they're all in this bill, and they've got nothing to do with the fiscal cliff, so to speak. joining us now is steve ellis, vice president of taxpayers for common sense. so steve, the fact that these lawmakers hemmed and hawed about tax cuts for the for the rich and nearly drove this nation into another recession but didn't raise an eyebrow about the billions of dollars of tax pork in this bill would seem to the layperson as outrageous. are we sure there's nothing meritorious in what appears to be work? >> certainly somebody will argue they like this or whatever but to me, you know, this is what feeds voter cynicism about the process. all this talk has been about the fiscal cliff and about tax rates and about the across-the-board

cuts of sequestration. and then stuffed in there are dozens of these little tax provisions, some of which that expired a year ago and that they've retroactively reinstated. we're looking at $70 billion or more of these expenditures in 2013. >> well, you know, sometimes something that would seem frivolous or like people call it pork or earmarks actually does benefit and stimulate the economy. isn't there something in at least that short list that i gave you that you can see as a benefit? >> well, certainly it is benefiting somebody. but the question really is is this the best use of the taxpayers' money? and these haven't really been thoroughly vetted. once they get into this system, they just remain there. so i would argue that, yes, having the u.s. virgin islands bankroll a distillery for diageo, the world's largest liquor conglomerate so they can move their captain morgan operations from puerto rico, another u.s. territory, to the virgin islands, well, yeah, there's some economic benefit

there, but it's clearly not something the federal taxpayers should be bankrolling. >> so when is it pork and when is it something that can actually get votes? because clearly, especially in the paralysis that we see on capitol hill, you've got to do something to get the votes. >> well, there's certainly always been this talking about log rolling but if you -- >> is that what it's called? log rolling? >> log rolling. you add something in and keep adding it so everybody goes along. but the thing is that this got 89 votes in the senate. i mean, how many votes, maybe it picked up a handful by putting this in here? but in reality is that what we want to do? we want to have legislators that are going to vote against their interest or what they would otherwise do on the fiscal cliff, the big part of this package just because some tax break got in there for -- you know, for motor scooters? >> what about those larger industries that say they have to have incentives like this in order to stay competitive with companies in china? >> well, there's a lot of reasons why things are competitive here in the united states.

i mean, it's not just about the tax breaks, it's about an educated workforce. it's about consistent laws and regulations that are predictable. it's about not having the fear of industrial espionage and theft of intellectual property. so there's a lot of reasons to be here. but even beyond that, you look at this and you have to question is this the best use of the taxpayers' money? and what everybody's been arguing about this year is we need to have fundamental tax reform, eliminate the loopholes, eliminate the breaks, lower the rates, expand the base. this goes exactly the opposite direction from what everybody has been talking about. >> but you've got to admit that sometimes it's a great sport to attack what seems like silly spending. i remember the big argument over fruit flies and that drew a lot of ire. but in the end fruit flies ended up being something that saved researchers money because a fruit fly dies much quicker and the life cycle's faster, therefore you can study their patterns much quicker and save researchers money. so can't you see in the end some of these things that don't appear to be meritorious

actually are? >> well, ashleigh, i mean, at taxpayers for common sense we look very hard at this. we try not to make a joke out of these things because these are serious issues. and there is somebody behind this. but in reality a lot of this is simply corporate welfare. and yes, you know, there's issues of research in fruit flies as you're saying or there was one olive fruit fly research that we spent money on in france. but in reality -- >> that was decades ago, almost a half century ago for heaven's sake. the france one? >> no, that was about six years ago. >> not the paris one. the paris one was back in the '30s, i believe. >> montd pelpelier is where it . there's a usda department of agriculture station there that had the olive fruit fly research. but the point of this is a lot of it ends up seeming like it makes sense or could make sense but in reality we have to step back. we're a nation that's $16 trillion in debt. we have a trillion-dollar deficit that we're running each year. so we have to make sure we're

not just doing the nice to haves, the okay to haves, the good to haves but the actual essentials to haves. >> steve ellis, it's good to talk to you. thanks for bringing the perspective. >> thank you, ashleigh. >> we have a lot more happening tonight. a lot of it outside of the beltway. the students of sandy hook elementary school are going to go back to the classroom tomorrow. it's not the same school, though, that they're going to be going to. they have a new place to learn. we're going to tell you all about it. and also you're going to hear from the daughter of the principal who was killed in last month's shooting at the school and what she has to say about the next step for the children of sandy hook. that's coming up next. excuse me, maestro? bring it down, please? (orchestra plays softer) better. that's what happens to background noise, when you're making a call on this. this microphone here, picks up the sounds around you and helps turn them down.

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the students of sandy hook elementary school are going back to class tomorrow for the first time since a gunman changed everything in the town of newtown, connecticut. indeed across the country. heartbreakingly, 20 students will be missing when those kids head back to school tomorrow. 20 6 and 7-year-old children were killed in the massacre on december 14th along with six adults in the school. the sandy hook students will be going to school in a different building. in fact in a different town. it's in nearby monroe. about a 15-minute drive away. our gary tuchman joins me now from connecticut. so gary, how are things going in the preparations for tomorrow? >> reporter: well, ashleigh, today the children, the teachers, the administrators who survived the massacre had an orientation at the new school, and tomorrow they will be going to the new school. and it's very interesting. it's a middle school that is called the chalk hill middle school but it was mothballed a

couple years ago, so it's been empty. sought sign that says chalk hill on the bottom left-hand corner of the sign right now there's a sign that says sandy hook elementary. this school has been changed and retrofitted for the new students. the bathrooms have been made smaller. the desks from the old school have been brought to the new school. the same teachers will be there. so the idea is for the children to be as comfortable as possible. but it will be a very emotional day. you know, dawn hochsprung, she was the principal of the school who was killed, beloved by everybody. and just a short time ago i talked with her daughter erica about the first day of school and she certainly has mixed emotions about it. she's a very nice, kind woman. and she's the spitting image of her late mother. >> she will be with them, you know. >> that's a great point. >> yeah. i saw a couple of her staff members and you know, just the little pieces they picked up of the donuts that she used to bring in and, you know, somebody saying we're going to miss those, and i'm like i'll bring them. you know, she'll still be there.

>> you were telling me before you have this letter that your mom once wrote you. the signature says "yours forever, mommy" and there's a smiley face and a heart. what did you do because it meant so much to you? >> i got it on my hand so i can always have it with me. >> a tattoo? >> yeah. >> and how are you doing, erica? >> i'm -- >> you look just like her. >> i know. some days it's hard to look in the mirror. but i'm okay. i'm getting there. >> the final thing i want to ask you about is the scholarship. tell me about that. >> my sister and stepfather and i have set up a scholarship fund in her name through her credit union, the waterbury teachers federal credit union. it will be going to a nawgatuck high school student pursuing a career in education, hopefully someone like her that has the

capacity to fill half of one of her shoes, you know, somebody with a passion to want to teach, you know, somebody who wants to learn. >> how could someone find out about the scholarship? >> we actually set up a memorial fund webpage for her, one of my friends james did that for us. it's the dawnhochsprungmemorialfund.org. on there you hopefully soon, probably within the next day or so will be able to donate directly into the paypal account that we have set up for her. >> so that's a beautiful memorial to your mother. >> yeah. i'm going be proud of every single kid that walks in those doors because it's a hard, hard thing for them to do. >> will there be some pain in your heart, though, erica, when you see them going to school? >> she should be there. yeah. >> reporter: erica is getting married this july. her mother helped her pick out her wedding dress.

ashleigh? >> oh, gary, it's so hard to watch that. but at the same time she seems like she's such a strong -- a strong girl. i wanted to ask you something else. in the news today there's a school district in new jersey from k through 12, all of the kids who go to school in this district are going to be met by armed guards at their school. that is just a policy there now. and it made me wonder what they're going to do at this new chalk hill school that's now taking the students who were affected by the massacre. what kind of security are they going to face? >> reporter: well, we could tell you right now that when you get within a mile of the school there are police cars parked in the streets. there are also signs in the neighborhood that say "welcome back students" but police cars are parked all over the area. because of security reasons and sensitivity reasons the news media has agreed not to be at the school tomorrow when the children get back there. but we're told there will be a lot of police, a lot of unspecified security, and what we're being guaranteed is there will be no safer school in the united states than this particular school. >> gary, thank you for your reporting tonight.

gary tuchman live for us. outside of that chalk hill school. i want to get the latest on some of our other stories that we're following tonight. isha sesay has a "360" bulletin. isha? secretary of state hillary clinton was released from the new york hospital where she was treated for three days for a blood clot. the state department says doctors are confident she will make a full recovery and that she's eager to get back to work. more protests in india today where people are outraged over the death of a 23-year-old woman who was beaten and raped by six men on a bus. a group of lawyers in the district where the attack happened say they will not represent any of the accused men, and the bar association is asking other lawyers to do the same. and look up into the sky in the early morning hours tomorrow for the meteor shower. nasa says sky watchers can expect to see 60 to 100 meteors an hour in the hours just before dawn. >> isha, thanks. for millions of people around the world the seven-day celebration of kwanzaa has just ended.

and tonight a wisconsin lawmaker a state lawmaker who's launched an all-out attack on the holiday is getting some pretty strong blowback. glenn grofman's claims are pretty incendiary, but he is not backing down, and he's going to join me next. you can watch videos and text. or you could watch the earnings report and take notes, like we're supposed to. so... can i get it? yeah. okay either of you put together the earnings report? yes, me totally. why don't you tackle the next quarter while we go to lunch. pu pu platter? yup! keep up the good work. i will keep up the good work. do more with the new samsung galaxy note ii. for a limited time get two flipcovers for the price of one. exclusively at verizon.

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ish. wisconsin state senator glenn grothman sunder fire tonit for his very blunt attack on kwanzaa, a holiday that millions of people around the world hold dear.

in a press release titled "why must we still hear about kwanza" the republican lawmaker slammed the holiday's creator maulena karenga saying "karenga was a racist and didn't like the idea that christ died for all of our sins, so he felt blacks should have their own holiday, hengs kwanzaa." but he went on to say this, "of course almost no black people today care about kwanzaa, just white left-wingers who try to shove this down black people's throats in an effort to divide americans." "mainstream americans must be more outspoken on this issue," he continues, and said "it's time it's slapped down once and for all." the quote continues, "be on the lookout if a k through 12 or college teacher tries to tell your children or grandchildren it's a real holiday." end quote. well, as you can imagine, senator grothman's message is pretty clear and his remarks have offended a whole lot of

people, and he's kind enough to join me now live. senator, that's some pretty tough language. did you not expect to feel some heat on this one? >> no. because we sent out something like this about 12 years ago and it was really no big deal. i think the underlying problem here is not enough tv types when they talk about kwanzaa talk about the horrible racist violent past of its founder, and if they knew the past i think kwanzaa would die a quick death. you've got to remember, ron karenga -- >> go ahead. >> ron karenga, the founder of kwanzaa, who just founded it in 1966, was a black separatist who felt the black panthers didn't dislike white people enough. the group that he founded wound up shooting a couple of black panthers. he himself for committing physical violence against women had to spend time in prison. now, i think the idea that our country would celebrate a special holiday created by this guy before he committed these

acts of violence and now we're going to say oh, we must talk about this to the kindergarten children and how wonderful this holiday is is ridiculous. >> well, you've got to admit, though, sir, that the holiday itself doesn't celebrate the founder. the holiday itself is actually kind of nice. i mean, if you look at its principles, and here they are, unity, self-determination, collective work, responsibility, cooperative economics, purpose, creativity, and faith. that sounds pretty nice. >> well, i'm sure if you go through the ramblings of even some of the worst tyrants in history you can say that they are for peace or unity or hard work or that sort of thing. but when you have such a horrible person who founded this new holiday solely to promote or in part to promote his goofy ideology i think we'd all have to agree that most americans wouldn't choose to celebrate this holiday -- >> what proof do you have, though, sir, what proof do you have that he founded this holiday solely to promote his goofy ideas?

i mean, these are ideas that i think most americans hold very dear. family, unity, faith, goodwill. >> why don't you google him? you look at anything in the background. things he said at the time. >> i don't get my proof from google. i'm asking for your proof. you're a state senator. you should be better than google. >> okay. the proof is the things he said at the time. he did not like christianity because of course he considered -- christianity is a religion for all americans and all people around the world. he felt that blacks should not be part of christianity, have a different holiday. he was a marxist. and he did beat up and physically abuse the women who were his followers. his own followers shot two black panthers. is this the type of guy we want to have as a founder of a holiday that we're promoting around america and quite frankly i think if most news anchor types, before they did a nice feel-good story about kwanzaa, presented exactly what ron karenga was really about it would never get off the ground in the first place.

>> well, i'm a news anchor type and i'm going to put this to you right now. i wanted to get some straight answers out of you and i wanted you to get a challenge. and cnn approached you about this interview and asked you to appear with roland martin, who is a cnn commentator who's very, very passionate about this issue. he wanted to challenge you on this and you refused. you said you didn't want to appear with someone who would defend kwanzaa. why on earth would you do that? >> oh, that's not true at all. i'd be happy to appear with someone who'd defend kwanzaa. but you're completely distorting the comments that we had earlier in the day. earlier in the day i said if we were going to have a discussion as to how many black people cared about kwanzaa -- >> okay, you know, before we even go on -- if we've made a mistake -- >> you're completely distorting -- >> i've got roland martin ready to go. so if i've made a mistake, will you appear with roland martin right now? because he is dying to get a question in. is that okay, sir? >> well, i would be happy to take a question from -- >> okay, fire away, roland. you've got your time. >> sure. i would ask the senator you look

at easter. that was derived from a pagan holiday. and so do you defend that? you talk about a made-up holiday. please tell me which of the holidays we celebrate in america that have descended from on high and were granted to us when we were born? aren't all holidays actually created and made up by someone? >> well, the question -- first of all, they are not created and made up by somebody. but even, say, a holiday like thanksgiving, which is a -- >> they aren't? >> -- holiday that was created by the u.s. congress. thanksgiving is something that i think we all can appreciate. it was not created by somebody out of a desire to separate americans white and black. it was not created out of somebody who had soon after he created the holiday beaten up his own followers and he had to go to prison for it. >> i asked you about easter. easter is a pagan holiday. it is derived from a pagan holiday in europe. actually -- >> if you feel -- if you feel that christianity is a pagan religion, then i suppose --

>> no, no, no. >> -- you'll tell us that christianity and easter -- >> i'm sorry, senator. senator, i'm a christian. i'm a christian author. my wife is an ordained minister. what i'm saying is if you look at the origin of easter it actually was a combination of christianity and also the pagan holiday where people walked around and painted themselves. why do you think we get the painted eggs? what i'm simply saying is you're denouncing the holiday because you don't like the individual. all i'm simply asking you is if you don't like it fine, but if there are people out there across america who celebrate unity, who celebrate purpose, who celebrate faith, what's the big deal? your attack -- so if your attack is on him, okay, knock yourself out. but if there are people who appreciate the principles, what's the problem with that? are you saying no unity in america? is that wrong? is that bad? >> no. anybody can celebrate any holiday they want. the problem i have is when they talk about the holiday without giving its history or given the

limited amount of time we have in our public schools when they decide to use that time to promote kwanzaa and present it as a holiday that millions of people ought to be following rather than -- >> sow don't want -- >> let me jump in here, gentlemen. let me jump in. senator, if you suggest that history is at issue, some of the historical, you know, ancient roots of kwanzaa have to do with a fruit festival, and it just so happens that the fruit festival is at the end of the year, which is right around christmas and new year's. so if there's any allegation that kwanzaa was some attempt to divide white and black people and christianity, it would seem that that timeline would sort of nullify that argument. and in the same vein i want to ask you -- >> i think you need to do a little bit of research. >> i did. i just gave it to you. that's research. >> it was designed specifically to be a holiday that was separate from christmas because he wanted his own holiday. >> you know, he, the person you're referring to, says it has nothing to do with christmas, it

only has to do with culture. let me ask you this. this whole issue you said almost no black people care about -- one second, please. you said almost no black people care about kwanza, just white left wingers. i want to read for you this statement and i'll quote it verbatim. "kwanzaa strengthens the ties that bind communities across america and around the world and reflects the great promise and diversity of america." do you remember who said that? >> absolutely. i remember it. >> who was it? >> it was one of the reasons why george bush was kind of an irritating president for some of us. >> is this a left-winger? this is borderline ridiculous. was george w. bush a white left-winger with a comment like that? >> actually, he was a born again christian. >> there are some politicians who would -- who would try to ingratiate themselves to anybody. and that's the way some politicians are. >> okay. can i ask you this? what is the harm -- >> and it's possible to -- >> honestly, i have never seen

anyone raise a pitchfork or a fist to celebrate kwanzaa. what is the harm in allowing people to celebrate a cultural holiday? >> nobody is preventing anybody from celebrating it. >> you just asked for it to be wiped off. >> quit your whining about it. >> well, we obviously can't wipe it out of every 300 million americans. what we can do is we can say that before it's presented as some special holiday, before the school children of america, we point out the background of the holiday and why it was created. and i think if we do that it will quickly disappear. >> you know what? you know, what ashleigh? i heard people just like him who used similar critiques to say why we shouldn't have a martin luther king jr. holiday, because oh, he was somehow a communist. and look, even the senator, you know, he chooses to keep his state office open on mlk day. if you do the research. so i'm just curious to him, is it okay to be celebrating mlk day? is that okay? can we get your permission? >> sure. there's a big difference.

martin luther king -- >> i'm just checking. >> ron karenga was a violent -- >> what about columbus day, senator? did you keep your office open on columbus day? >> well, we all have our offices open on columbus day. right. >> okay. because some people claim that columbus also and columbus day is something that we shouldn't observe because a lot of people died. >> well, columbus was the person who founded america kind of on behalf of the eastern hemisphere and -- >> oh, but you forgot his history, though. >> benefiting from america today -- >> yeah, i think if you asked a lot of native americans they'd be pretty upset about the idea that we celebrate how america ended up -- >> senator, come on, you can't pick and choose. you can't pick and choose. also, i'm just curious. should we celebrate valentine's day? surely that was created from on high. i mean, again, though, you're sitting here, you know, making your critique when valentine's

day was a retail holiday -- >> i don't think it was created by someone only 40 years ago who was a violent person and a racist person. >> was columbus violent? was columbus violent? >> no, columbus was not a violent man. >> all right. >> columbus wasn't a violent man? okay. got you. it's clear you don't study history, sir. >> state senator glenn grothman and roland martin, thank you both for your time. thank you for this debate. >> glad to be on the show, ashleigh. >> and look out, valentine's day, because cupid had an arrow. thanks to both of you. happy new year. happy new year to all. we've got some new numbers tonight on how many background checks the fbi did on gun buyers in december. the month of the newtown, connecticut shooting. we're going to have more on that in just a moment. but your erectile dysfunction - you know, that could be a question of blood flow. cialis tadalafil for daily use helps you be ready anytime the moment's right. you can be more confident in your ability to be ready. and the same cialis is the only daily ed tablet approved to treat ed and symptoms of bph, like needing to go frequently or urgently.

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time now get the latest on some other stories we're following. isha is back with a "360" news bulletin. hi there. >> hey there. the united nations says the death toll in syria has now passed 60,000, even higher than anyone had thought. at least 74 people were killed today in a government air strike on a fuel station outside damascus. that's according to opposition activists. the united nations says deaths have increased from 1,000 per month in the summer of 2011 to more than 5,000 per month since july. the fbi performed nearly 2.8 million background checks on people wanting to buy guns in december. a record month that capped a record year. avis budget group has agreed

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